I'm not sure I will be able to believe that the Qur'an we have today is 100% the word of God.
Now, its not that I have any big issues with the Qur'an. I really don't, I find it beautiful and moving. But I come from a Christian background. The Bible has been severely messed with over time, the Torah got messed with a bit too. Its hard for me to believe that someone didn't sneak something in their while it was being written down. I know a lot of procausions were made to make sure the Qur'an stayed as authentic as possible (such as Muhammad having multiple scribes who would write down the same passage and cross check). But people are corrupt, its that simple. If what has happened over time to the Bible could happen, I can see easily how something could have gotten slipped into the Qur'an while it was being written down the first time. Bad part is I expect there to be something that does not belong.
Obviously this is a HUGE issue. Muslims have to believe the Qur'an is 100% the word of God. It might as well be one of the fundamentals. I do believe it is a Holy Book inspired by God, just don't know if every word is God's word. Maybe my issue is I can only read translations. Maybe if I could read and understand Arabic I would feel differently. But I'm stuck with translations who's writers add their own two cents every line or so in parenthesis that drive me crazy.
So I have no idea what to do now except keep reading it and hope for the best. 2 years of studying may be lost all to my simple inability to believe in perfection. My peace and joy found in Islam will have to be lost because I cannot convert with this issue over my head.
Time to end this post before I start thinking of all the things and the person I would loose.
Edit: I have been reading Tariq Ramadan's "Messenger" and he too states that the prophet had scribes who wrote down the Qur'an as he revealed it. On top of that he had his companions memorize it in case there were any discrepancy. This means Muhammad was directly involved in the order of the Qur'an and the written word. I have to marvel at the effort put in by Muhammad (as) to keep the book in tact.
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Hugs, Sweetie.
ReplyDeleteIt would be so much easier if the Quran were merely an "inspired book" instead of supposedly being the exact Word of God. My heart goes out to you as you struggle with this issue.
I hope you find peace with whatever you decide and may God lead us all to His truth in life.
You're right; humans are corrupt. However, just because some things are corrupted doesn't mean that everything is. I believe that the Qur'an is one of those things that did manage to avoid corruption. Back in the day, people memorized the entire Qur'an, and they corrected each other if they recited it wrong. Although the Qur'an in written form wasn't compiled until Uthman did so years after the Prophet's (saw) death, there were still plenty of people who memorized it (given that in Arab culture most information was memorized and passed down orally). Since there were so many people who had memorized the Qur'an or part of the Qur'an, I think it would have been very difficult, if not impossible, to add or delete parts without someone else noticing and correcting it. I can't really say much on this since I also don't understand Arabic, but I can say for sure that English translations of the meaning of the Qur'an are definitely not to be taken as what the Qur'an actually says. Translators are given the liberty to translate and interpret words how they want to. Arabic is a very rich language; one word can have dozens of meanings, but in translations only one of those meanings can be written, so there is a huge amount of richness lost. I am definitely not a fan of English translations of the meaning that contain footnotes and parentheses everywhere. It distracts from the writing and it is basically the translator adding stuff in there that might not belong there. The Hilali and Khan translation is especially guilty in this regard; there are parentheses inserted into the translation like it's nobody's business, and their translations in the parenthesis may not actually be what the Qur'an means). I think that the best thing to do is have faith in this one. It's good to recognize that translations will never be perfect, and that humans do have a tendency to corrupt things, but that doesn't mean that everything we touch will turn to crap, and I think the Qur'an is one of those things that escaped corruption. ALLAH says in the Qur'an, "We have revealed the Reminder and We have taken upon Ourselves the duty of preserving it intact." (15:9).
ReplyDeleteYou know, I don't think that's such a make-or-break issue. If you believe Muhammad was a prophet, you can be Muslim.
ReplyDeleteAn important point about the added parts in parantheses: this is often necessary because of the nature of classical Arabic. It is "elliptical" in its style - it misses out bits that would be needed in English for it to make grammatical sense, so the translators have to interpolate those bits. They put it in brackets because for the most part they are translating WORD FOR WORD. This is not the way people tend to translate the Bible - they tend to re-render the meaning in English. But in Islam, the Arabic words are considered so important that English translations are usually pretty much word for word, and interpolated bits are put in brackets to show that's what they are.
There are some translations like Tarif Khalidi that render the meaning more freely in English without bracketing. You might find those more appealing.
I'm curious whether there are any parts in particular you think seem out of place or added?
Susanne: Thank you
ReplyDeleteAnne: That is a good way to look at things and you have a good point they tried really hard to keep it in tact.
Sarah: You have a point as well they are pretty careful. My translation likes to add extra things though which kinda annoys me :)
Well according to My Love I HAVE to believe the Qur'an is perfect. He and I could also have issues in our relationship if I didn't since he feels very strongly about the subject.
Lets see what did I have an issue with. I'm about 4/5 of the way through. There is not much of an issue to be honest. Its mostly I don't understand why GOD would have put these things into the Qur'an. I don't understand the fraze that allows you to have sex with your slaves (my understanding is that this is a bad translation of those that your right hand posess). Not a fan of the beat your wife verse even though it supposively doesn't mean that at all. I don't like that the husband gets the children in a divorce reguardless of the situation. And I'm still having issues with the verses on the crucifixion.
Now the beauty of it is most of these can be explained away by scholars I'm sure to a place in which I can find a mutual understanding.
So maybe it isn't totally hopeless. I know you had this issue as well. What made you feel the Qur'an could not be the word of God if I may ask?
Achelois told me about a book by Lisa Spray on Jesus in Islam, which you might find interesting. Here is a link to the chapter on his death. Her theory seems to be that he died before he was crucified. This could be one way to reconcile the Quranic verse with the historical accounts.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.masjidtucson.org/publications/books/jesus/chapter13.pdf
I had several of the same issues as you. Sura 33 in particular caused me a lot of pain and anxiety.
If they can be explained away by scholars to your satisfaction, then problem solved. And there are many people who believe these thorny issues have traditionally been interpreted wrongly, and choose a more progressive interpretation. They obviously have to reject a lot of hadiths to come to that point, but they feel they can justify that too. I have discussed issues with people like that and been reassured on a lot of things.
Ultimately for me it was too much mental gymnastics to be OK with everything, but different people clearly come to different understandings, so no, I don't think it's totally "hopeless" for you. lol.
The issue of common ground with your Love is an important one. I realise now that even if I'd converted, I would have been a totally different type of Muslim than my husband, and it would not have been "happily ever after" anyway. I hope he is open to discussing issues with you, and learning and thinking. Maybe you can grow together towards a common understanding of Islam.
I have been told to read as many translations as possible although I am told that the one I have is one of the most popular it has the arabic in it aswell! It is by Abdullah Yusuf Ali. It may be worth a try. It was translated in 1930 ish and is still in print.... got to be worth a look at!
ReplyDeleteAlso note that in the normal culture of America and the UK we are taught to believe that nothing is perfect! Dont let this sway your mind.
Elizabeth: I think that is the one I have LOL
ReplyDeleteSarah: I actually have a similar book but I will check out that link. I have learned of a few conclusions that make a lot of sense to me including one which translates it to mean that you cannot kill Jesus because he lives within all the people that follow him and through his everlasting message. I really like that one. I'll find that lecture when I go home and post it. Amaar Nashawari is one of my favorite scholars.
Luckily he and I are similar in our belief system except for this issue. Hopefully that can be solved. Most hadiths I disagree with he disagrees with as well He'd even let me get a dog as long as it lives outside :)
Just to add another point: the Arabic in the Qur'an is pretty much beyond the level of most Arabic. It's incredible and this would also make it hard to forge something in the Qur'an because it would mean someone had to have had the same style, which most Arabic-speakers agree is simply impossible.
ReplyDeleteCairo Lusaka Amsterdam: I did not know that. Very interesting thank you.
ReplyDeleteI think my issue goes along with what Elizabeth said: In the west we are taught nothing can be perfect. I also watched my birth religion get changed over and over again both in the scriptures and the practices. I was brought up first with the idea that the Bible was the word of God and perfect and by the time I was finishing high school the church had changed its tone and was saying it was still the word of God but Christianity is allowed to evolve with time thus all the changes through time. And these changes somehow still reflected the words of God. ((BTW This is not the experience of ALL Christians or all churches. Not a universal concept)).
See why I'm having issues? LOL
Dear LK, You are such a loving heart; I'm sure if you prayed hard to God to show you the truth, He would. Ask Him if it is His Word. I know you must have already, just telling you what I did.
ReplyDeleteI think you are being unfair to yourself. There are loads of non-Western, born Muslims, lots of Arabs who have questioned their belief in the Quran. I think men question it far less than women.
I can read and understand Arabic and I have read the Quran several times and questioned it several times. I honestly don't know if there is a real and honest reader who doesn't question what they read. That would be so blind.
I know that belief in the Quran is very important. That is what you recite in prayer.
I pray that you find peace and answers. If you ever want to chat and discuss ideas, please feel free to email me. Just leave a message on my blog and I'll email you.
Achelois: Thank you for your kind words. If I come up with questions I will most certainly do so.
ReplyDeleteYou know I actually haven't asked God yet lol That would be a good idea :) I have asked for Guidance but I have not been specific about the Qur'an.
I have basically come to the conclusion myself that the Quran shows evidence of literary borrowing from Christian and Jewish sources that predate it.
ReplyDeleteExamples of this include the story of Jesus speaking as an infant and making the clay birds, which is from the Gospel of Thomas. The story of Solomon and the queen of Sheba in S 27. is from the 2nd Targum of Esther and was written as a children's story.
You are the one who has to decide how this affects your faith outcome. Sure most Muslims believe the the 100% inerrancy of the Arabic text. Most Christians used to believe this about the Bible until textual variants became more widely known. Can you believe that the Quran is inspired and the word of God, yet was still shaped by the time period and person to whom it was revealed? Can an inspired text contain passages that had been written in other previous sources and were not recognized as inspired?
Take some time to pray about this issue, and I have faith that God will reveal his truth to you in due time.
Oh, trust me.. the perfect authentity of the Quran is the easist issue to solve. =)
ReplyDeleteCheck ou this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYwvgXOU1e4
And this online book:
http://islamworld.net/docs/UUQ/index.html
There are tons of books and articals, but this is what I found at this moment. Would you mind if I send you the rest via email?
(Now the beauty of it is most of these can be explained away by scholars I'm sure to a place in which I can find a mutual understanding).
Absoutoltly. I've been at the same position as you in the past, and I love how I was able to find satisfactory answers to all my questions regareding certain verses. =)
Stacy: I don't really have a problem with some of the stories being repeated in the Qur'an. In fact, I think it would be weird if they weren't. And it shows some authenticity of the other two books which I think great! And it shows the connections between the three religions. To me it made sense to reveal somewhat in context to the time period or how would the people understand it? And most of the concepts can still be understood even if you dont know the history, you just might not get as much out of it.
ReplyDeleteAnd I also think for Muhammad to have borrowed the stories from the Torah and the Bible he would have needed a vast knowledge of both religions. One) to be able to recall the stories and two) to be able to fashion verses around them in order to state a point and keep everything cohesive. From what I have learned of his life, that would have been difficult for him to do.
I have great fondness for the Gospel of Thomas. It still surprises me that it was not chosen to be part of the Bible. I find it to be the most honest gospel. (wants to hunt it down so she can read it again :)
Anon: If you would like you can email them to inkblotsblueabayas (at) gmail.com. Thank you for your help.
(Sure most Muslims believe the the 100% inerrancy of the Arabic text. Most Christians used to believe this about the Bible until textual variants became more widely known).
ReplyDeleteExecpt muslims don't just beilive the Quran is perfectly authintic just because they're told about it.
http://www.islam-guide.com/bqs/15authenticity.htm
Hi I just happened to stumble across your blog and I have just a couple of things to add.
ReplyDeleteIn my own experience, the more I study the Quran and Quranic Arabic the more convinced I become. The second is regarding divorce and custody. I have heard many Muslims say that custody goes to the father, but I believe this to be more cultural than any religious mandate. In fact, the custody of the children go to the mother and secondly, in the event that the mother is not able, the maternal grandmother. The father is actually way down on the chain when it comes to custody rights. That is before puberty. After, it becomes more complex and the wishes of the children should be taken into account in the views of most scholars. This is according to the sunni scholars anyway.
Stephanie: Welcome :) Thank you for that information that makes WAY more sense. I think I got confused by the translation, its my first time reading through the Qur'an.
ReplyDeleteI too find that the more I study the more I wonder "Maybe it really is from God."
(Anon: If you would like you can email them to inkblotsblueabayas (at) gmail.com).
ReplyDeleteWill do! thanks. =)
(and the wishes of the children should be taken into account in the views of most scholars).
True. There was an incidence where the Prophet asked a boy if he wanted to live with his mother or his father. The boy choose his mother.
"The father is actually way down on the chain when it comes to custody rights."
ReplyDeleteIs that a good thing??
Re Stacy's point, yes, the Quran contains historical stories that compare to apocryphal Judeo-Christian sources. I do not think this can be a coincidence, and I was always thinking that Muhammad knew those stories and God utilised the stories he knew already.
The historical story-telling in the Quran is confusing and to me it seems like fragments of oral traditions. Only the story of Yusuf gets told in full and at length (why?) Plus although it tells the story of Lot’s escape from Sodom and Gomorrah in several places, sometimes it says his wife was left behind, sometimes it says an old woman was left behind. Not a contradiction, but it makes it seem like these came from two different orally-transmitted traditional accounts.
One possibility is that God was confirming only the parts of the story that were true. The Quran often seems to subtly change the Biblical stories in ways that make them more credible. Some are still quite fanciful though.
Another possibility is that the stories’ truth or falsehood didn’t really matter but they were being told in the Quran to make some other point. There are a lot of legends in the Quran, pre-existing legends, involving unrealistic things like talking birds and ants, and Muhammad Asad interprets these as literary devices and not literal truth.
This is the best I could come up with on that point!
Sarah: I guess I must be odd in the fact that I never questioned those stories being there. It made sense to me.
ReplyDeleteThe Fragmentation of the biblical stories I'm not entirely sure of. Many will tell you that it is God making a point and confirming parts of the story. The differences may have been revealed to correct what the people had at the time. I believe there are websites that have compiled the verses so you can actually read the stories in full, instead of the fragments spread out. You also aren't suppose to entirely ingnore the Biblical version as intricle parts of some stories are left out. Some Muslims will say ignore the Gospel because its not in the Qur'an (really at all). But I think that is a foolish way of thinking. Just because it isn't perfect doesn't mean it doesn't have value. Its value is most likely why Islamic scholars study the Bible as well.
I also thought that maybe this fragmentation was to allow us to be reminded of the stories and the lessons to be learned. Or the stories are being used as an example of the main point of that surah or ayah.
Just a thought but I'm not sure, not a scholar after all lol