How many of you that believe only your religion goes to heaven have had anyone close to you who belonged to another religion die or have family members or close friends of another religion?
This is my main issue. I would love to have you all answer this question, I think it could be truly fascinating to see the results.
I take the stance that many groups could be eligible for Heaven because I have a lot of friends and family who are not the same religion. I have an issue with believing that a wonderful person dedicated to God and doing good could go to Hell simply for being the wrong religion. I am suppose to believe that Mother Teresa, or Ghandi, or Martin Luther King, or Buddha could have gone to Hell because they were the "wrong" religion despite all the good they did for the world. That is not just, that is rather ridiculous.
Here are examples to my thinking:
If I were muslim I would then have to believe my parents will go to Hell simply for being Christian. Despite the fact that they are both good people and that my mother is particularly dedicated to her religion.
I am suppose to believe that my friend who is firmly dedicated to the belief in one God and doing good for others will go to Hell because she does not associate herself with one organized religion but chooses to follow her own path.
I am to believe, if I stayed Christian, that My Love and his family, all great believers in God and charity, will go to Hell because they are not Christian.
I am to believe that my aunt who passed almost a year ago could have gone to Hell because she was Jewish. Despite her years of working with children, her involvement in charity, and her time she gave to volunteering at a hospital even into her late 80s. I am suppose to believe that this wonderful woman could have gone to Hell only because Judaism might have been the "wrong" religion.
Do you see what I am getting at? Do we see how this view lacks the mercy and justice God is suppose to possess? We are imperfect beings who like to see things in black and white but the world functions in shades of grey. We do not have the right to condemn another group of people. God is the only one who can judge us and we should leave it up to Him.
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I'm Muslim but my mother is Catholic and so is her family, who I'm close to. I would never think for one second that they are going to hell, because they are the kindest, nicest people I know. I do not believe for one second people will go to heaven or hell based solely on whether they are Muslim or not. That doesn't really fit into the whole God being merciful, forgiving, or compassionate thing.
ReplyDeleteWhy should a Muslim mass murderer get treated better than a Christian aid worker? It just doesn't make sense.
Also in the Qur'an it says people of the book all have the chance to go to heaven, and early jurists said that this doesn't only include Christians and Jews but also Hindus, etc.
Oh I forgot:
ReplyDelete"Do we see how this view lacks the mercy and justice God is suppose to possess?"
Yes but that view doesn't come from the Qur'an, it seems to come from the Hadith and from puritan Muslims. It's rare to find a moderate Muslim who believes that all non-Muslims are going to hell just for not being Muslim.
to keep it short, islam' stance on this is that you have to have good behaviour with everyone, animals, people, family and most importantly with God. you have obligations towards them. the first obligation is that you follow God's commandment. so if you dont follow it, but you are good to people like those you cited, there is no use to it. because its a waste of time. associating Allah is not a little thing. its the biggest sin ever no matter how good you are to people.
ReplyDeletesince you have all these questions, maybe you should see a scholar or something. cause nobody's a scholar here. in the end, you might end up more confused getting different opinions
ReplyDeleteWell, my family is all Christian, though different denominations, so the question doesn't really apply to me. Still, I take the stance that I don't know who is going to heaven and who isn't, and I'm not going to start playing God and judging people based on their stated faith.
ReplyDeleteI think anybody who tells you that they're certain that they're going to Heaven based on whether they're Muslim or Jewish or Christian or anything else for that matter, is deluded.
Habibti: Yes I plan to speak to scholars. Do you have non-muslim family members or friends or relatives?
ReplyDeleteI think that the most important thing is realizing that you could never make it to heaven on your own merit. If a person is relying on God for grace and forgiveness and humbly repents for wrongdoing, I think that God will forgive, whether a person's theology is completely right or not.
ReplyDeleteStacy aka Fahiima: That is a lovely way to look at things. I appreciate that view as well. We really can't make it to Heaven without help from God.
ReplyDeleteMy opinion on this pretty much boils down to ALLAHu Alim (ALLAH knows best). ALLAH is able to do all things, and He knows what we don't know. Being a Muslim doesn't automatically assure someone a spot in Paradise, and I don't think people that don't identify themselves as Muslims are destined for Eternal Hell if they truly believe in and submit themselves to The One GOD and do righteous deeds. This is just my opinion, though; I am definitely not learned in Islam by any means. Even to people that have devoted their lives to studying Islam or other religions, still ALLAHu Alim, ALLAHu Alim, ALLAHu Alim.
ReplyDeleteBanana Anne: Allahu Alim, thats good advice :)
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteI am not sure if I mentioned it before but our actions alone wont get us in to jannah we have to be grateful, honest and ultimately it is up to Allah swt. We will enter Jannah through his mercy. The question is HOW do we get his mercy? by following his religion and that includes the rules and regulations. The only sin we as Muslims believe WILL NOT be forgiven is associating partners with God.
ReplyDeleteEven a mass murderer who has an atoms weight of iman in his heart will eventually be taken out of hell. He may end up spending billions of years who knows but the point is NOT to spend a single second in hell fire.
sorry i stated something that was wrong so I had to delete it.
ReplyDeleteI don't rationalize disbelief or associating partners with God. God is who decides who goes to heaven or hell and I don't sit trying to assign people to any one place as I don't know what is in their hearts.
I follow his religion as it was revealed to the people that came before us and finally given to the Prophet (saw). We are all responsible for our own salvation not those of others.
I think we like to think we are unique or the only ones that have ever had these thoughts. But we aren't, the prophets (as) all dealt with these issues. Take Noah (as) for example he was a prophet for 950 years and his son still disbelieved and died in the flood even while Noah (as) was still trying to save him. Abraham's (as) father disbelieved, kicked him out and eventually the father died in disbelief. I think it was Lut (as) whos wife turned around and was turned in to a pillar of salt as they were escaping from the punishment befalling their people. Even the Prophet Muhammad (saw) his beloved uncle died as a disbeliever even though he was the # 1 defender of his.
Like I said before, we are all responsible for our actions and I don't rationalize other people's behavior I leave that to Allah
Tuttie: I think I understand what your saying and if I do it makes sense. But I must ask for clarification: when you say "unbelievers" do you mean those that do not believe in One God or all people who do not follow the religion of Islam? Making this distinction helps me to understand since unbeliever is often used both ways. To me, it makes a great deal of sense if used in the context of "those that do not believe in One God". Obviously, the later is more difficult for me.
ReplyDeleteYes, in the end its all up to God. God knows best and will judge us accordingly.
And yes, assigning partners with God is an issue and is what started my questioning of Christianity.
It's true that the Quran says Islam is the only true religion in the sight of God, but that deos NOT mean that all non-muslims are going to hell, or that all non-muslims will stay in hell forever.
ReplyDeleteI wish more muslims would refrain from blanket statements like: "If you die as something other than a muslim, you are going to be in Hell forever".
Besides the statement being inaccurate, it is also somewhat presumptive. Non-Muslims cannot be grouped into one large group--they are a diverse amalgamation of people.
Furthermore, I encourage everyone to be weary in issuing judgments on the fate of other humans. The issue is far more complex than being a Muslim or a non-Muslim.
If it were as simple as "all non-Muslims go to Hell forever and all sinful Muslims go to Hell for a time and all perfect Muslims go to Heaven" then there would be no purpose for the Day of Judgment (what would God judge if it were that simple?) nor would there be a necessity for God Himself to preside as Judge over that day (because if it were that simple, couldn't a man issue the sentences as many muslims now do?).
As Muslims, we understand that God's mercy outstrips His wrath, and that He is saving the greatest portion of His mercy for the Day of Judgment when we will all return to Him to be held accountable for all we have done in our life.
And, out of his infiate mercy, God said that no one, absoulotly NO ONE, will enter the Hell fire..
Except those who rejected the Paradies.
Rejecting true faith is equivalent to rejecting Paradies.
Who are going to be in Hell foever?
This is an area that it's not really our place to speculate. Judgment without Justice is like Peace without a cease fire. Hell exists because some souls choose it of their own free will. Believing that God is just means believing everyone who comes of age is sufficiently tested and had opportunity to knowingly make that decision.
However, it's NOT a bar that's set the same for everyone.
Souls are tested according to their capacity, and responsible according to their knowledge.
So it will be different in every case, and only God know fully.
Continue:
ReplyDeleteBut The great Muslim scholar, Imam Ghazali, managed to handle this issue perfectly.
The following is my limited understanding of his writings:
In Islamic thought, people who are non-muslim are divided into three camps:
1) those that have died as children before they made any conscious decisions about the existence of God,
2) those that were never exposed to the message of Islam or the Qur'an, either by geographic isolation or the fact that they were not contemporary with any of the prophets of God (because the Qur'an maintains that all prophets that have been sent by God, including Jesus, delivered the same essential, unwavering message of the Oneness of God [pure monotheism]), and also those that were exposed to Islam but to a perverted and distorted version (such as many people living in the West, or people who are convinced to blow themselves up).
3) those that have outrightly made a conscious decision to reject the unity of God, reject his messengers, or reject his word--these people in group (3) are called "Kafirs" in the Qur'an.
In Yusuf Ali's commentary we read: Kufr, Kafara, Kafir, and derivative forms of the word, imply a deliberate rejection of Faith as opposed to a mistaken idea of God or faith, which is not consistent with an ernest desire to see the truth.
The word is generally translated as "non-belivers" though it should be mentioned that the word 'kafir' comes from the Arabic root "k-f-r" which expresses the concept of covering up. In the Qur'anic context of the word Kafir, it refers to those who have intentionally covered up their hearts from the peace of God.
In any case, those from group (3) are clearly condemned to hell for purification in the Qur'an. Those from group (1) and (2) however, cannot be sent to hell, because the Qur'an also states that God does not punish until he has sent a messenger (or an unadulterated message).
It should be noted that in Islamic thought no man has the power to judge who is a member of group (1), (2), or (3), or for that matter even who is a true muslim, because that power is reserved only to God, who is the ultimate judge. Anybody who does so does so in danger of operating contrary to the Qur'an.
Also, simply abiding by the laws and guidelines of the Qur'an is not enough.
Being raised Muslim is not enough.
Sheikh Abdul Hakim Murad writes that "there is little value in outward conformity to the rules unless this conformity is mirrored and engendered by an authentically righteous disposition of the heart."
He also adds that "it is theological nonsense to suggest that God's final concern is with our ability to conform to a complex set of rules. His concern is rather that we should be restored, through our labours and His grace, to that state of purity and equilibrium with which we were born. The rules are a vital means to that end, and are facilitated by it. But they do not take its place."
So ultimately, if:
(a) the message of Islam reached someone in a complete and clear manner;
(b) they rejected it untill they died,
then the Quranic verses and Authintic hadiths about being eternally in Hell would apply.
At the level of individuals, it is a major question as to what "reaching" and rejecting entail.
This is why we cannot really judge whether individual non-Muslims are in Hell (or, for that matter, in Heaven).
In either case, God's mercy exists, though for non-Muslims unreached by the message, it is a question of divine amnesty for their ignorance, not a confirmation of their religions validity.
@ LK. Allah swt sent many, many, many messengers to mankind. Whenever the people would loose their way He swt would send another and another and another. There is a distinction between a nabi and a rasool. One would come with legislation (like removing laws or adding laws as well as with a book torah, gospel, quran) and some would only come with a message "come back to worship the one God" and they would enforce the previous laws and book...type of thing.
ReplyDeleteAnyway each messenger/prophet that would come we would have to follow. Seeing as it was the same religion and message just different messenger. Now people who refused to accept the new messenger because they either did not believe he was a messenger of God or because they were benefiting from the corruption kept on in their misguidance.
So when I said disbeliever what is meant is that at THAT time they did not believe in the message that Allah swt had sent via his prophet for various reasons or they didn't believe in the prophet. So they were considered disbelievers at that time. It is major disobedience that should not be played down. Being disobedient to the message sent via a prophet some 1400+ years ago is bad enough but disobeying and disbelieving a prophet whilst the prophet was alive is even worst. I know this is a concept hard to understand because unlike the people we are talking about we have hindsight.
by the way I am NOT a scholar and this is what I was able to digest and understand when i was doing my research in to Islam. May Allah swt forgive me if I have said anything wrong. May Allah swt forgive all of us for
sharing anything that was incorrect. ameen
@the first anon with the comment about the day of Judgment. Allah swt knows best. Little I do know states that the people that came before us who believed in the ONE God as it was revealed to Noah (as), Moses (as), Jesus (as)and eventually Muhammad (saw) will also be judged.
ReplyDeleteWE are not the only people who received revelation. We are the last people to receive revelation. So the day of judgment is for ALL of mankind not just the little snippet of human history we belong to.
As a new convert to Islam, all of my family is Christian, most practicing, although some are quite secular. My grandfather passed away last Christmas Eve. I was still a Christian at the time, not even questioning yet (that came in February). At his funeral I truly felt at peace. My grandfather was always at church, never spoke a bad word about anyone, was very charitable, etc. etc. I do not have enough good things to say about him, and at his funeral, I believed 100% that he would be welcomed into Heaven.
ReplyDeleteThen I converted to Islam. And started to worry about this. The peace I felt about my grandfather was gone. As I've had time to digest, though, I've returned to my original thinking that it is possible for my grandfather to be welcomed into Heaven without following Islam. For one thing, I don't think he knew anything about what Muslims actually believe, so he can't be judged on something he has no knowledge of, and for another, he spent his whole life worshiping God, and raising his family to do the same.
I really don't know if all religions, or at least the 'big 3' have an equal opportunity at Heaven. Obviously, I believe that Islam is the truth, but I'd like to think that doesn't negate others' genuine attempts at pleasing God, even if they are misguided.
Anon: Wow lots of good info. Thank you.
ReplyDeleteTuttie: thank you for your clarification. That makes sense, I see what you are saying. Good point, the ones born while the Prophet was alive surely would have more to answer for in their rejection. Thank you for the info.
Nikki: I actually spoke to some women today and most seem to have the same view as you do. I hope to ask Sister A (see newest post) my Qur'an Studies teacher about this subject. But it seems to me that Christians and Jews are not automatically condemned just because they are not muslim.