So knowing this why do I still believe that the Gospels hold truth? Why do I still believe that Lazarus was raised, Jesus walked on water, and rose. A lot of it is these stories are engrained into my head. Another is the Qur'an re-confirms how special Jesus was. And there is a beautiful message in the Gospels. I do think that somehow they are divinely inspired. And the other reason is this: Does it harm anyone to believe the Gospels are true? No. It only does good. So I believe that the stories hold truth even if their truth only lies in their message, their "myth" as Aslan would say.
So then my ajoining question is: Do you need to grow up Muslim to believe in Muhammad? Muhammad may not have been so fantastical, "magical" as Jesus so you don't have to try to wrap your head around those concepts. But Muhammad was more human which becomes equally confusing. He did questionable things (raids, lead war). Most of his questionable actions had a valid reason but it still seems odd for a prophet. Now, we don't know much about the the ruling prophets (David, Solomon, Joseph) so we can't be sure that they weren't very similar in their behavior. I think he was a good man with great intentions but there are just some things I struggle with. And I worry that I will never get past them because I was not born believing he was a prophet. I'm still working on developing my relationship with Muhammad. I'm working on understanding him and the message he brought. I love his message, I believe in The Qur'an, but I'm still unsure about its messenger. Sometimes I think Muhammad's sole purpose was to bring us the Qur'an. He wasn't suppose to really do anything else which may account for his very human attributes. But I don't know. I need more time to get to know him. I need more books. I have read Aslan's No god but God, Ramadan's Messenger, and I have Armstrong's Muhammad. Anyone recommend one more?
Peace be upon all the prophets who came with God's message whether we know of you or do not.
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I'm reading "The Sealed Nectar" by Saifur Rahman al-Mubarakpuri. A few years ago there was a worldwide contest to write a biography of the Prophet (saw), and this book won. It's very readable and gives the history of both the Prophet's (saw) life and the society of Arabia at that time. I think you can read it online.
ReplyDeleteThat is a good point that you brought up; since I too wasn't brought up believing in Muhammad (saw) as a Messenger, I feel like my relationship with him is still underdeveloped and prone to doubts. However, the more I get to know him, the more I respect and admire him, and I am understanding more and more why Muslims love him so much.
ReplyDeleteSealed Nectar was the one I was trying to think of! I've found it a few places. I like books, I can take them with me :)
ReplyDeleteMy parents were nominally Christian and had me baptized as an infant, but then did essentially nothing to raise or educate me as a Christian. When I converted at the age of 15, they were not even happy about it. So, no, you do not have to be born into a Christian family - notice I say it this way, because I understand the Bible to teach that no one is born a Christian: it must be a conscious decision on the individual's part. It is only possible to be 'born again' a Christian. You do not have to grow up believing in Jesus in order to get your head around Christianity, even view it as simple, logical and 'can't be any other way'. Millions of people have come to know Jesus and adopt the Christian faith at a later age.
ReplyDeleteThe governmental and war aspects that Muhammad (salAllahu aleyhi wa salam) had don't really bother me that much. I mean, David (alayhi salam) got fame for killing Goliath, in the old testament the tribes were told to destroy alllll the people of canaan, the kings of old definitely conducted war and were even ordered to do so by God. On top of this, in the old testament, the Messiah is understood by the Jews to come and bring peace only AFTER he leads his people to a military victory/freedom. This is why Jews don't view Jesus (alayhi salam) as the messiah, because the did not lead a nation or bring freedom to the people. The messiah from prophecy was understood to be a governmental leader. This is what was always expected, because this is what the previous kings had been like.
ReplyDeleteIn order for the Jews to understand Jesus (alayhi salam) as the messiah, they had to realize that freedom was not in THIS life, but the next. The battle is not a physical one, but spiritual.
I think that Muhammad (salAllahu alayhi wa salam) actually makes a pretty beautiful culmination to both ideas. Because we are human, we still have to operate in this world. As such we need government and societal structure. However, he told us that while we may struggle for this world, that is the lesser jihad. The true jihad is struggling for the next life, just as Jesus (alayhi salam) taught us.
wa alhamdulillah
:-D
NeverEver: Well said!
ReplyDelete“Do you need to grow up Muslim to believe in Muhammad?”
ReplyDeleteWell if you look at it this way, none of Muhammad’s contemporaries grew up believing that Muhammad was a prophet. None of them even grew up expecting that there would come a man amongst them who’d claim to be a prophet. But they did and if they hadn’t there would have been no Muhammad, the Messenger.
There are scores of non-Muslims who convert to Islam and fully believe in Muhammad. I don’t think it’s impossible.
Then you said: “Another is the Qur'an re-confirms how special Jesus was. And there is a beautiful message in the Gospels. I do think that somehow they are divinely inspired. And the other reason is this: Does it harm anyone to believe the Gospels are true?”
As a UU what I found truly heartening was that I was never expected by Christians to believe that the Bible is the unaltered word of God. It is believed to have been inspired by God but not His word per se. On the other hand, Quran teaches that the Bible is God’s revealed Book which makes matters very complicated and when the two Books don’t tally with each other it is claimed that the Bible has been corrupted.
So as a UU I can draw valuable lessons from all religious books while not believing that any was God’s word put down on paper. No, I don’t believe that God dictated the Bible, but the message is beautiful like you pointed out and it does good so that is enough.
But what I don’t understand is that you think that because the Gospels were written several years after Jesus’ death that they can’t really be trusted in telling us about the true Jesus. But then you say “the Qur'an re-confirms how special Jesus was.” The thing is Quran says absolutely nothing new about Jesus that can’t be found in the Bibles, canonical and/or apocryphal. Thus, Quran only reaffirms what is said in the Bibles which you think are a brilliant work of myth. And if Quran is actually telling something that really did happen and Jesus was in fact like that, then it also confirms that the Bibles are not a myth because they already hold that information. Raising Lazarus is no less amazing than giving life to clay birds as a small boy and talking from the cradle, and yet these stories also exist in apocryphal texts.
I guess what I’m trying to say is how it is all inter-linked. I believe that there was certainly a brilliant man called Jesus. He may have been a prophet, he may not have been one. He could have had divine qualities or maybe not. The fact is he was brilliant enough even if he was fictitious that he could be followed as a role model. If he wasn’t as perfect as it is claimed there would have been someone, some lone writer, just one person who would have written against him, but we have nothing against him which is evidence that he wasn’t all that *normal.* There is historical evidence from non-Biblical sources that confirm that there was a man called Jesus and that he was a good man. That is enough. He brought Good News. And that is enough.
What a nice post, LK. You have been writing very interesting posts recently. This one made me think so much (aloud :D ). Thank you!
Achelois: the flaws in my statment just show how confused I am. I don't think the Bible is a myth but studying it leads you in that direction. Kinda does the same thing to the Qur'an too depending on what you are looking for.
ReplyDeleteGood post, but I have a few comments. :)
ReplyDelete"Especially when you find out how far after Jesus' death the gospels were written. These people didn't even know him! The information is no more credible than a game of telephone."
Of course I disagree with this as two of the gospels in the Bible are attributed to Jesus' disciples and the other two by men associated with contemporaries of Jesus. Also in his letter, Peter writes that they haven't followed cleverly-invented fables, but were **eyewitnesses** to his (Jesus') majesty.
Luke is credited with writing Acts as well as the gospel with his name,and I've read that even secular scholars sometimes use this book (Acts) to learn about history because it is so well-written. A physician that attentive to detail isn't easily dismissed even by secularists.
Also the people of that time - much like the Arabs attributed to compiling and memorizing the Quran - were masters of oral tradition. So it's not like contemporary people playing "telephone." And with enough people around to confirm or denounce the teachings of Luke, Mark, Matthew, John & Peter...they couldn't get by with making up fables. There were MANY people who saw Jesus so they could easily have discredited the ones preaching about Christ. So I just think the stories are true. But I'm a literalist like that I reckon. ;)
Enjoyed your post. :)
Susanne: good points. I think that was the job of the apostles, to make sure the information stayed correct. Just like I feel it was the job of the alhul bayt to watch over the religion and the Qur'an. But I have heard conflicting information on who wrote the gospels. Most of my sources said that the names of the apostles were adopted as the names of the gospels but in no way were written by them. Many site them being written at least 100 years after Christ. That doesn't mean however that the oral tradition did not exist before that and that the apostles didnt have something to do with it. I can almost guarentee the apostles had something to do with the oral version. And it is possible that we did end up with their versions of the gospels, but I dont think they are entirely the words of the apostles.
ReplyDeleteIt makes you feel sometimes like they are no more credible than a game of telephone, but we know that is an exaggeration. They obviously have truth. But I am also in a stage of complete disbelief in almost everything but God at the moment so its hard for me to tell.
LK, I really recommend Bart D. Ehrman and E. P. Sanders for understanding how we can discover the historical truth contained in the gospels. Scholars have sophisticated methods for working out what is myth and what is historical; it's fascinating, and also gives you confidence about what you can believe and what you can't.
ReplyDeleteRe Muhammad and the raids and wars... when I was hoping to be Muslim, it greatly comforted me to remember that there are also things that were done in the name of God in the OT that would be classed as atrocities if they happened today. I'm not sure if that really should have been a comfort, but it was. :)
WWR: Yeah I started to look back at the OT and the Torah. I totally forgot the Jews were waiting for a "warrior" sort of prophet to come which is why they didn't believe Jesus was it. And then I thought of David, Joseph, Solomon....all leaders who most likely had to do similar things. I REALLY want to find more info on them. And yes, time period does play A LOT into what is and is not kosher. Marriage at 9, kosher 1400 years ago, now not so much. Raids? Totally normal. Be like a protest today LOL
ReplyDeleteIm totally getting that history of Jesus book you had. Sounds AMAZING. I'm almost ready to start reading again....almost.....I still need a break lol
If you really believe the things you've been taught about Jesus, then those are your beliefs. I've found that the Christian faith isn't just the faith of my family, but it's also mine, and that I believe in it because *I believe*, not because it was what I was told. When I think about this topic, I'm reminded of the verses that say something about training up a child so that he/she will not depart from it (the training/faith/teachings) when they are older. Amazing... it held true for me. : ) *hugs*
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